Turning Trials into Triumphs: A Candid Conversation with a Legal Pioneer

MPS: [: 00:00:00

Richard James: And I'm Richard James.

MPS: And today we're joined by Attorney Scott David Stewart. Scott, welcome on. Super excited to have you here.

Scott Stewart: Hey guys, how are you doing? Appreciate having me on.

n that I did and, oh my gosh,: 2008

I man enough to admit it and we've become, he's been obviously a client for a long time, but we consider each other very good friends. So Scott, thanks for coming on the show today. I appreciate you being here. I can't wait to share your story with other attorneys are out there that are listening to this that could maybe use a little inspiration or maybe just feel like they're not so alone [00:01:00] and that other people are going through the same journey they're going through. So I appreciate you being here today.

Scott Stewart: Yeah, I appreciate being on and obviously you know, more than happy to share my experiences if I didn't know how competitive you were. I may have thought that you were throwing the golf match, but I'll just give everybody who's gonna play golf with you a little secret. On the first nine, you kind of just play golf and talk about life and everything.

As soon as you make the turn, you just asked Rich a business question or, you know, some sort of a numbers question. And then his mind starts, you know, thinking about that. And he forgets about the swing a little bit. Now this is a long time ago. So I'm sure his ability to focus as much better now.

You know, he's playing some high level courses with some high level people, but that was always my trick. So I always had to close the gap in like the last five holes. And the more I got him thinking about, you know, some maybe crazy ideas that I may have had. His mind started spinnin and the golf ball started spinnin too out of bounds.

know, my scores at the last [: 00:02:00

And a smooth 38 on the front of Whistling Straits. And I proceeded to shoot a 45 on the back of Aaron Hills. And a 45 on the back of Whistling Straits. So somebody got me talking about something that get my mind spinning, and my ball spinning out of bounds. So yeah, we had a good time.

MPS: I think Scott opened up the opportunity for you. He exposed the area that we need to work on, right? He the back nine, the focus. We gotta get on.

Richard James: No.

MPS: I think that's great.

Richard James: He opened up the knowledge to my opponents. Now, I'm SOL.

MPS: There.

his backswing, right? So I'm [: 00:03:00

Scott Stewart: There you go.

Richard James: Just have to play more golf with Scott so he can keep working on me. But Scott, you've walked away from golfer, well, obviously your kids are in this, you know, super growth age, that they're really busy. But you got into it. Triathlons and really being an, you know, an athlete in other areas besides golf. Is that right?

ow, I mean, as you know, from: 2010

And so it was a great time to train because, you know, I get up super early. So you get up early. And, you know, I would be done training by like 9 a.m. Start working from home, you know, which, you know, a lot of people were doing obviously. And so [00:04:00] it was a great opportunity to train.

And so I did that for, you know, probably about two years did some small triathlons was training for, you know, a couple larger ones that either were canceled one time I got COVID and just set training back, you know, like months. And so that one wasn't a possibility.

And then my kids hit the next phase of sort of their activities. And so I was no longer coaching them which was easy back when they were younger, but now they're older, the training's different. And so, you know, obviously it almost never stops. And so I registered for a few triathlons and inevitably it always hit on either an out of town weekend for cheer or a soccer tournament or something.

ing like that then then it's [: 00:05:00

So the one thing is now I'm no longer transporting. So I've signed back up at the golf club. So I am going to start probably. Putting some time into you know, working on the golf game again, because, you know, when you're no longer traveling, you know, one hour each way to practice, well, it was an hour each way, but probably, you know, between drop off, go home, go back, you know, I gained like six hours a week of time, you know, it all comes back around.

So we're getting back into it. I'm gonna start working on the golf game. Phoenix has been a little bit warm lately, so we're waiting for it to cool down just a little bit.

Richard James: Yeah, that's just a smooth 117. No problem.

MPS: Yeah, yeah.

ike, I can't tell everybody. [: 00:06:00

MPS: Fair point. Yeah. Very good point. So, Scott for the law firm that are listening here tell them a little bit about. So your journey as a law firm owner, what does that look like?

Scott Stewart: So, to clarify, so like, where I'm at now? How I got started? All of the above.

MPS: Yeah. Why don't you take us from the start and share some of the highlight details you feel are applicable along the journey.

rm and probably still is one [: 00:07:00

And so I went there, I worked there for about, I don't know, five or six months and decided that I'd be better off to go start my own firm. Started off doing strictly criminal offense because at that point in time. The only world I even knew was the criminal law world. And so over the next several years built that firm up, had some associates.

One of my best friends moved out here from Chicago, met him in law school. He was doing family law. So I had no trial experience and no real courtroom experience. So convinced him to go to the county attorney's office to get the trial experience. But then I hired him, you know as soon as he had the requisite level of experience, and then he started the family law part of the firm.

clip of revenue, but I just [: 00:08:00

And so, you know, I grew up, my dad owned his own business for like 40 years before he sold it. And then, so I grew up and it was a manufacturing. So I was very, very. You know, process oriented and you know, so I had a lot of you know, I'll call them rudimentary processes in place.

ver since then. You know, we [: 00:09:00

Richard James: No dogs are cool their family too.

MPS: You're good.

Richard James: It's all good.

Scott Stewart: Well, it's the classic work from home. And when the workers show up an hour before they normally do you kind of plan, plan things around that. And it's like, Oh, what happens? Anyway, so it, you know, do you need it? Mean, the answer is obviously no. Tons of people don't, right? Like but they get stuck and I always tell people Tiger Woods best or second best golfer, depending on your viewpoint has a coach.

% [: 00:10:00

And once I got started, I had never done that, but once I got started on that process, I've always had at least one person that I've been either being mentored by whether it was coffees once a week or actively working in a coaching relationship. And I can't imagine not being in that situation just because, you know, if you want to move forward you're limited by the world that you surround yourself with.

And if you don't have anybody in your world that knows more than you, then obviously you can never grow beyond where you're currently at. And so you know, I don't foresee ever being at a point where I would not have, you know, some sort of coach or mentor as I'm going through my business life.

I I've had, as you know, but [: 00:11:00

And so I'm right now I'm in search yet for another coaching aspect to my life I've met with two or three people in the last couple of weeks. And I'm looking for something very specific because like you, I don't want to be without a coach. Now, Michael, I'm curious for you because. I guess in many ways I've somewhat been that coach for you, but have you found filling coaching for you in another place besides from me? And what does that look like for you?

tups every couple of times a [: 00:12:00

Unfortunately that fizzled out for that mastermind owner. But I thought that was fantastic. Even just the community alone having other people there to actually know more than you and provide some good feedback and insights was very valuable. So, I'm on that search too.

Richard James: Good.

Scott Stewart: And I think one of the things people, so everyone, you know, is you like to say, and you know, certainly you're not the only one that ever says this, but you know, everyone's at a different point on their journey, whether it's in business or in faith or in relationships with, you know, somebody.

And so when I first started working with Rich, I was already over a million dollars in gross revenue. And I bring that up, not because that's a great feet for me. Lots of people do that, but I think people feel like you have to, you know, be brand new. To you know, need mentorship or guidance or you have to be doing 10 million a year to have the revenue to try to afford it.

Right? [: 00:13:00

I wish I could. That would mean awesome things, right? But you might outgrow the person that you're with today. And if you do, then you need to search for the next person. And you probably should start that search six months before you think you've outgrown the person that you're working with. And I've worked with other people and after a short time, didn't feel like they were providing me value or giving me the inputs that I was looking for.

million a year in [: 00:14:00

Richard James: It's interesting. I didn't know that we were going to head down this path. We never know where we're going to go, right, Michael? But what a great path. I mean, you could put at the top of the page, you know, why an attorney, the owner of a law firm should have coaching or mentor, whoever it is.

We're not suggesting it should be me or it should be Michael or it should be you. I don't think you really want to be in the coaching business, Scott, but I think you tried that once and you weren't, you wore.

Scott Stewart: It's not my personality.

Richard James: Not your personality, right? And so, but whoever it is, I think it's important to have it. Here's a question for you to plus one on this. Why do you think. A lot of attorneys struggle with the idea of hiring a coach or a mentor.

ng that's available to them? [: 00:15:00

Scott Stewart: Yeah. I mean, I talk to a lot of attorneys. You know, some just call me, some of my friends. I think it's probably a combination of all of the above. You know, it's sort of like, you know, it's kind of like the person who doesn't go to church cuz they think they have to fix all their sins first.

Richard James: Right.

Scott Stewart: And so it's like, Hey, I'm not ready for a mentor yet because I have to get this, you know, fixed in together. And it's more like, no, actually you're the perfect candidate because, you know, if you had it all together, then maybe you should be mentoring. Right. And so I think part of it is, you know, they just don't know they don't know what they should be doing or what's available to them.

just think it's kind of all [: 00:16:00

But if I had to say one thing, you know, I mean, I think the one issue is I think they're too busy working in their business to even contemplate how to work or even look at their business differently.

Richard James: Great point. Michael, you.

Scott Stewart: Especially, I mean, most attorneys bill by the hour. Right? And so it's like, Hey, I'm going to spend an hour every week or two hours every week. And it's like, well, depending on your hourly rate, that's anywhere from 300, a thousand dollars an hour, right.

Depending on your rate and where you live. And it's like, Hey, I'm going to dedicate this time. And so, you know, they're just so busy to even contemplate, you know, that.

Hey I ran into this buddy of [: 00:17:00

And he goes i've seen him like three times and finally, you know, he said, man, I need to know what you're doing. And our friend's answer was, well, you gotta have somebody who can look at your business objectively and give you some advice. You have nobody to give you that outside opinion.

And so I, oftentimes I hear one of the challenges that lawyers have is when they build these businesses. You know, I'm in a firm last week that was doing 7 million dollars in losing money. They're not profitable and they're not able to support their family.

s some guidance. And I'm not [: 00:18:00

I'm advocating that they just need to find somebody that's a fit for them. So Michael, back to you. You were going to about to go down the path of Scott's firm again. And I interrupted you. Sorry.

MPS: Well, no you're good. I think that was a very good like sidetrack there because I think it's super valuable for attorneys to hear this because many of them are probably in the same boat and they're probably watching this very early in the morning and very late at night because they don't have much time during the day going right back to Scott's point.

So Scott, the one thing I'm curious about, because similarly here, obviously I've had my dad growing up having a business. I was able to see that you had a similar thing. So I'm curious during your path as a law firm owner, did you have any drawback? Like one big point where you're like, Whoa, I need to take something and learn from this, a downside along the journey.

ngs, right? I mean you know, [: 00:19:00

And I think, you know, the advice that I would give is just to recognize that they're probably just that they're just valleys. And, you know, as you continue, I mean, all businesses are the same, whether you look at, you know, Microsoft, who's been laying off recently, tens of thousands of people, or the, you know, the solo attorney that has two assistants working for them, you're going to have these up and down periods.

You know, it is hopefully as you're growing and you know, you just have to, I think, maintain focus and for me lately, the big thing is just maintain the most positivity that you can possibly maintain to, as you go through these down periods. And as you go through the up periods as well.

[: 00:20:00

But if you look at overall where you're at now to where you came from, you got to look back and, you know, recognize that journey and you can do that with a positive mindset understanding that business, all businesses have cycles. And you might be going through an actual growth phase, but because you've made investments.

those periods with, you know [: 00:21:00

And so I think if you can stay positive throughout the process and the journey. It'll make it a lot easier for you. It's never easy, but it'll make it a lot easier for you. And you'll be able to, I think recognize and see the accomplishments.

Richard James: Yeah, so I'm going through some of that right now myself. Right? We've decided to invest in growing this staffing agency out of Guadalajara and I'm super passionate about it. It really become a purpose driven business for me. But I've been in the middle of the storm and I know we have really good systems running the business and we have an eye on profit, but while I was in the middle of the storm, I got to be honest, I thought for sure when I did my quarterly review in January that I was going to see my net liquid asset value go down.

how much liquid cash would I [: 00:22:00

I ran the numbers at the end of June and my net liquid assets had actually gone up fairly considerably. And so I say that because when you're in the middle of a story, it can feel difficult. I mean, it just, why you so your point of staying positive, staying healthy, doing all those things is so valuable.

But I want to bring you, I have a question for you because I know we didn't pick one. But obviously we've been working together a long time and I am curious because I don't know if I've ever asked you publicly, but there was a season where you really decided because you love web tech kind of stuff.

our own, and I don't know if [: 00:23:00

Are you happy you did that on your own? What do you wish you would have just had an expert do it? And how do you feel about it now? And if somebody else is looking at some other part of their business that they think they shouldn't outsource this, they should do it on their own. What's your advice to them?

Scott Stewart: So, I would say I am thankful I did it at that point. So as you know, right now I'm looking at aggressively going into multiple other practice areas. And so at the point in time that I made that decision, I think it was the right decision. It required, and I think because I was solely focused on one practice area.

And so all the [: 00:24:00

And so when I would talk to vendors, you know, I knew sometimes more than what they knew. And so, you know, that was incredibly helpful. But I think that, so with where I'm at, what I'm trying to do now, I don't know that would necessarily be possible, but the knowledge that I have, you know, is certainly helpful.

oing basis and what was good [: 00:25:00

So to answer your question directly, yes, I am glad I did that and went through that process, but I don't think I could do that today with the goals that I have and what I'm trying to do. I just think that to become an expert in that area requires a lot of you.

And so I'm at the point now where. I'm trying to find other experts to do that. And then, you know, obviously get the reports from them that I want to get so that I make sure that we're, you know, accomplishing the goals that we're trying to meet so that we can, you know, move the business forward.

could recognize truth in the [: 00:26:00

And I think that's vital to the success of a business. I'm currently working knee deep in my business because I want to know the truth about it before I hand it off to an employee to run for me. And so I'm assuming you feel the same way in sales, Michael, you couldn't have done it without diving in. You wouldn't have been able to hire salespeople at the level you are today without being able to have the knowledge you have. Is that accurate?

MPS: Yeah, definitely not. And you're right. I'm all for it. Because if you hire a vendor and you have no idea what you're looking for, I mean, you don't know whether they're doing good, bad. Okay. And our marketing vendor right now is probably sick of me because I'm doing that right now with them. And just every little thing I'm going through and I'm just making sure it's on pace for where it's supposed to be.

you got to know what you're [: 00:27:00

Richard James: Yeah. Good.

MPS: So Scott, I think we got a little clarity on some of the drawbacks. I agree with you, you know, there's peaks and valleys to business. I would be more concerned as a business owner if things were straight up and to the right, always, that would be a bit concerning because that would likely mean.

Something's about to come. So I'm with you on that. I'm curious cause we had a few moments through this where you shared some things, did you have like an AHA moment during this journey? Like a breakthrough moment for you where the light bulb went off?

I first started working with [: 00:28:00

And, you know, so we, the follow ups and, you know, working with I always had a dedicated intake phone person. So, but we're at the seminar and, you know, I'm getting notices of people that had hired the firm and so we put some infrastructure in place over the prior, probably, it probably took us like six months, I think, to get that build and everything and to get all the content written.

ed up getting five new hires [: 00:29:00

And that was probably the first time that that's ever happened where I wasn't at all involved in the process. And so, you know because all the other times I was at least in the office, if not doing the consultation and here I wasn't doing the consultation. You know, so from the initial phone call.

Through to the higher and I'd hired some great attorneys at that point on basically faith said, okay, gave away all my cases. I need to be a manager if we're going to go from me representing 50 people to the firm representing 500 people, because that way we're helping more. You know, more people who need our help.

And so that's the first time that I truly wasn't involved in the process at all. And it was like, wow, this really does work. And so ever since then, you know, I've been focused on, you know, continue to improve, make better and expand, you know, sort of the process.

a mic drop. That is awesome [: 00:30:00

MPS: It's a magical feeling.

Richard James: I wish everybody could feel that feeling cause it is super empowering. But I'm going to steal one of Michael's questions. What do you think is one of your what's the thing you think? Attributes to your ongoing success because we're kind of coming to the end here. I want to wrap it up. So we've people have heard your advice, but what do you do to stay? Successful, do you have habits? Is that what we want to know? Michael kind of the habits the books.

MPS: Yeah, or just some principles, something that you do to just continue the path forward.

Richard James: Personally.

Scott Stewart: Personally I am. Probably my wife would say annoyingly so regimented and habit oriented. I mean, I basically get up at the same time every day, start my workout at the same time every day. Unless there's a reason, eat lunch at the same time every day. You know, I want to eat dinner in the same window every day.

worse over the last probably [: 00:31:00

You know, really heavily the last year, but probably started maybe closer to three or four years ago. You know, like my nighttime routines the same. And so I'm just a big believer that in order for me to operate at my optimal level, I need to, you know. Have a schedule and try to balance that and keep that in line as much as possible.

Obviously, if the kid's got a tournament or something, but even when we travel, I mean, I get up at the same time. Everyone's still in bed. I go down, have my cup of coffee, find the gym, start stretching. I mean, we went on a cruise a couple weeks ago and same thing. I was up at 5 a.m. in the gym at 6 a.m.

really focused. And mentally [: 00:32:00

I try to listen to. as many books as I possibly can. You know, it was driving around or just, you know, around the house, I'd probably cut, you know, my television time by probably 90% and not even I wasn't even really intentional to be honest with you, it's just more of over the last several years of going through kind of this process, it just has become less important.

o stay sharp for the business[: 00:33:00

Richard James: Your wife Colleen's a nurse my wife Maria's a nurse i'm curious is Colleen is she like, you or she not, more whimsical, let's use that word.

Scott Stewart: Yeah. Well, yeah, no, she's not like me at all, which is great. Cause you know, we just had a conversation the other day and, you know, through the conversation and you know, I told her, I'm like, look, I fell in love with you because you weren't like me, you know, you make me do stuff that I need to do to step away and, you know, so that I have balance because without her and without, you know, without that, I mean, I would probably be incredibly imbalanced in my life, but she, you know, was like, nope, we're going to do this.

hill out and, you know, then [: 00:34:00

Richard James: Yeah, no, I completely agree. If we compare, I would wear the same clothes every day. Maria is what we consider to be an emotional dresser, right? So.

MPS: Yeah.

Scott Stewart: Yeah, yeah.

Richard James: She needs to pack multiple different outfits when we travel because she's not sure what she's going to wear that particular day. And I love it because it makes me a better, I mean, if it was me living on my own, God forbid, I mean, that would be a horrible thing for the world and for me, but it'd be like, I'd have one chair, one plate, one cup, one knife and fork.

You know, I'd have one of everything and I would use it all the time. That's how, you know, my brain likes to work, but I love having the balance on the other side. I don't know, Michael, you were raised by both your mother and I, I think you're a bit of a mix of both of us, but I think you lean.

tuff, but then there's other [: 00:35:00

Richard James: But the, I think the answer to hear that what we got to Michael was discipline was that word that Scott didn't say, but that's it, right? That's the key to success.

MPS: It's discipline.

Richard James: Discipline is the key.

Scott Stewart: 100%. 100%.

MPS: It flows into everything, it flows into everything. And it's the backbone of, I think that is the backbone of success and many successful people. Scott, as we wrap up, what's got you excited today? What are you most excited about personally in the business, the whole nine?

Scott Stewart: Ah, I'm working on a couple things that I can't publicly discuss. I think Richard knows what some of those things are. But, there's just some growth things that I'm putting together that I think I'm excited to.

and see if it but I'm really [: 00:36:00

Richard James: Yeah. And well, you're.

Scott Stewart: I know the answer to your question. It answered your question. I just couldn't tell you.

Richard James: But you gotta be excited about having two drivers in the family. So, you know, two more drivers in the family, right? I mean, it's scary and exciting all at the same time. Right? But, oh, and by the way, I should have had this expensive. It's expensive too, because I think Michael and Justin both tore up some vehicles along the way while they were learning. Am I correct, Michael?

MPS: Fault is but yes.

Scott Stewart: I think he played the fifth. I might plead the fifth on that. Okay, that's some legal advice right there.

MPS: Yes, yeah, I'll play the fifth on that one.

Richard James: Well, Michael, I think we want to.

MPS: Cool.

Richard James: Know about, like, we're, we love to do this, but you have the gentleman's agreement, right?

ng. All we ask for in return [: 00:37:00

And then make sure to hit that Subscribe or Follow button depending on the platform you're listening or watching on and turn those Bell Notifications on so you can continue to get more of these, Your Practice Masetered podcast.

Richard James: Yeah. And so Scott is, if anybody wanted to get ahold of you don't give your cell phone number, but like what, because people do watch this, so, but what would be the best way for them to reach out to you if they wanted to?

-: 4600

Richard James: Awesome.

MPS: Perfect. Scott, it was a pleasure. Yeah, it was a pleasure.

Scott Stewart: Yeah, I appreciate it guys. I always enjoy catching up with you and this was a lot of fun. I really appreciate it.

's listening and really, you [: 00:38:00

So thanks so much for you for all those listening. We appreciate you. We care for you and we want to help you build your business one system at a time. Thanks, Michael appreciate you too.

MPS: Thank you, appreciate you,

Richard James: All right, everybody. We're out.

Scott Stewart: Bye bye.