Master Networking for Law Firm Success | YPM Podcast

Jeff Baldassari: [: 00:00:00

And also. It's where, the ease of, it makes your job fun and that's what does make it more fulfilling when you connect better with people.

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wledge that's going to share [: 00:01:00

And so I'm super excited to get into this conversation. But Jeff, thank you for being on and joining us here with the pod.

Jeff Baldassari: Hey Michael, it's good to meet you over the podcast and I look forward to our conversation today, and exploring quite a few topics that are probably top.

MPS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah. Likewise. And one of the things we always do to kick things off with the pod to get to know the guests just a little bit better is an icebreaker. So, what is something that maybe not everybody knows about you?

Jeff Baldassari: Well, Not everybody knows about me. Well, I guess it would be my background. When I was 17 years old, I was ranked 11th in the country in racquetball. There you go. When I was a young man, I was, I was in a sport. I played a lot of sports, growing up. I never heard of racquetball until I was 15 years old. And I got involved with it.

re to go, much farther to go [: 00:02:00

It was a lot of fun though.

MPS: The question is, can someone play you now and you're still 11? Yeah. Do you still have it?

Jeff Baldassari: No, I have it, mentally. I know what to do. I can make you better. I can't. No, there's no way, I'm going to get back to that. But I did, have a pro that I spent a couple years in training with. It's just like any other sport. When you learn those little tricks, and if you master them, boy, your game just goes to a whole new level.

So, yeah, But that was a lot of fun. It was a great time of my life, and I enjoyed competing and playing in racquetball.

MPS: Cool. And you don't often hear racquetball as one of those things to say you were 11th in the country is pretty impressive. So, uh, that, that's, that's

Jeff Baldassari: But I'll be one of the few people in America that never plays pickleball because of my natural instinct that when you hit a ball, I will be the world's worst pickleball player ever. So, I don't, I won't take up that sport.

MPS: One of the few to not play.

Jeff Baldassari: I will be one of the few that not play pickleball. That's correct.

MPS: [: 00:03:00

It's fun to go out there and play. But hey, everyone's got their specialty, right? And that's okay. So look, I, you've got a fascinating journey. You've actually practiced law before, right?

That was the career path. But why don't you take us through the high level, because it is a fascinating journey of just your journey professionally, from a high point perspective.

Jeff Baldassari: I was an undergrad. I was an accounting major. I passed the CPA and I went on to law school or directly into law school. Then upon graduating, you know, I practiced law for just about seven years. The last five of which was with the national law firm BakerHostetler. And by the time I left Baker, my attorney count was the 16th largest United States.

ufacturer of high end office [: 00:04:00

e years consulting to Fortune: 1000

And but, you know, the practice of law has always been a part of me. Whether it's the way you approach problems and challenges and opportunities, the way you analyze them, the way you consider them, think them, you know, the questions you ask as you're trying to seek out what is the real challenge or the problem, how do we overcome it, that has never left me.

I always enjoyed it. And I think, it'll always stay with me the remainder of my career.

ious, first and foremost, is [: 00:05:00

Jeff Baldassari: It depends on what lens you look through. Yes, there are a lot of parallels. There is a lot of commonality. yes, There are some vast differences. But the commonality, I'd love to focus on for today's conversation, but I think the biggest thing that it comes down to is discipline. And looking at the things they don't teach you in law school, the book that I recently that I published, just recently, but I actually wrote it when I was practicing law, 30 years ago.

It's entitled From Associate to Ambassador. And it's about becoming something bigger than just a partner in a law firm, and how does one achieve that outcome. And what it boiled down to in the end, and we can get into some of the details is, it's those skills, and expertise, and disciplines, and values, they don't teach you in law school.

% of what's in my [: 00:06:00

You have to master those skills that are all surround people, to be successful in your career.

MPS: Yeah, and those are important skills. And I definitely want to dive into that. I think, that's a very good parallel, to really not even just law to your point, really just to any business. And you also said something and you said it just so naturally, but I think it's something that a lot of law firm owners struggle with is that the fact that you fell in love and got fascinated with the business side of law too.

ing a practitioner of law to [: 00:07:00

Jeff Baldassari: I did look at law as a business from day one. I, you know, I have being a business undergrad. I was trained that way. My father was a very successful businessman in his career. And so, I approached law that way. So, you know, You have to separate the craft from the operation of the craft. And you need both, obviously.

You have to provide some kind of a service, no matter what your business model is. And in this case, it happens to be the practice of law. But what you have to understand and go beyond the craft is like, how does that work? How does it fit in? And how do I grow and expand that? And also, make it more fulfilling, you know, more satisfying. And then also, creating that connection you know, to your clients, to your support staff, to your colleagues, because that's where the magic happens.

ling when you connect better [: 00:08:00

And I didn't appreciate the importance of that statement until living it you know, for 30 years after hearing it. And that is, You know, you can put everything, anything you want down on paper, but that's not how life works. You know, When people start to get involved, it complicates things.

ence. And also, again, to be [: 00:09:00

MPS: Let me be the first to tell you if you haven't been told, you are a unicorn in the legal space, to be able to walk in viewing it as a business. That is very much the rarity that we hear, which is great because it offers you a different perspective right out of the gate. Which also probably armed you to be more successful right out of the gate, not necessarily in the practice of law, but on the business side of law, which is awesome. And probably led to some doors opening because of it.

I want to pull on some of the strings from the book, because as you mentioned, you've got the book that just recently came out. And we were talking about this pre show. And I think, this is important because it lays the foundation a bit. Why'd you choose to write this book?

a young professional, and I [: 00:10:00

In the Cleveland office, we had about attorneys, I would say, roughly. And so 28 or 32 of them, I think we had 7 or 8 floors, I can't remember now how many exactly there were, but 28 to 32 of them were corner office partners.

Well, What set them apart? You know, What made them special you know, over all the other partners? And you know, I just started taking notes through observation. And you know, it wasn't where they went to law school, it wasn't their practice of law, but it was their connection to people, in the end. And I started just again, looking and writing down in detail, what those attributes and skills and behaviors were, and they just aggregated.

rst draft of the book back in: 1993

A lot of it was timeless, and that's the other thing that's key. A lot of the things that are in my book are the things I observed. We can talk a little bit about those details. They're timeless. been going on for a hundred years. They're going to be going on for the next hundred years, because they're people oriented. They don't have a shelf life to them. They don't go out of style. They are not replaced with technology or by technology.

They might be accelerated by technology, where the ease to doing them you know, increases, but the ability to do it will not disappear, the importance will not dissipate either. That's why I did it.

when your career takes off. [: 00:12:00

MPS: I think, you're spot on with that. And I appreciate you sharing, what led to the inspiration of writing the book. You mentioned one of the big key topics was becoming a master networker. Talk about that a little bit. What can someone do? What, can a law firm owner do in that regard, to really become a master networker and why does that matter?

t table, sit down with those [: 00:13:00

And so, not the best training, but it opened my eyes to this is how you find clients. But what I wish I knew then, which I learned years later is, when you're networking, it's not about you. You have to make it about your audience. You start all your conversations off with, how can I help you? You want to listen to the other person.

So, Michael, I wouldn't, if I started telling you, I'm, you know, I'm Jeff, I'm a solo I know, practitioner for law. My expertise is you know, labor law, whatever it may be. And I do this, This is what sets me apart in the labor law area. You're going to run. Because if you're not in the market for labor law attorneys, what do you care?

But if I started the conversation, Michael, tell me a little bit about yourself and tell me how I can help you? How I can make some introductions for you? Everyone loves to talk about themselves. Let the other person tell you about themselves, what they're looking for, and then start being a facilitator to make introductions.

Because most business [: 00:14:00

about what he does. And you [: 00:15:00

You're building relationships. You're not networking. You're building relationships. And when you build relationships, you create value and people will reciprocate. And the last part I'll add to this is, is attorneys, you got to get out of your bubble. Don't go to a networking event filled with a room full of attorneys. They ain't buying from you. And you are certainly not going to help your competition. I'm not saying to never, never go to those events. Because you want to have awareness of what's going on in the market. Also, you may have to do referrals. You may want referrals to come to you. But that should not be, people don't like to leave their comfort zones. So they want to go in a room full of attorneys.

s? So maybe you should go to [: 00:16:00

And again, just start facilitating at, you know, building relationships with others that are outside the practice of law. That I think will make you an incredible facilitator. You'll be building relationships. And that's how you should properly network. It'll exponentially grow your career in a very compressed amount of time.

MPS: No, I think that's great. And if I were to draw a couple conclusions there, it would be leading with value first and giving people the opportunity to talk about themselves and what they enjoy and what they're looking for and want to get out of something. And I agree with you from a networking perspective of trying to find new clients, you got to get out of your bubble.

o, Networking was a big part [: 00:17:00

Talk to me a little bit more. So, there any other big takeaways you were going through, you know, how to become that corner office partner that you created in the book?

Jeff Baldassari: Mentorship. That's the second part. And mentorship does not have to come within your own, organization. So if you are a solopreneur, you know, a solopractitioner, that's fine. And obviously, there's no opportunity for mentorship within the firm. However, you can find mentorship easily outside the firm.

And again, this can come from your networking, where you meet a professional because that accelerates your learning. So, if you could learn something today and not have to learn it 10 years from now or 20 years from now, that puts you obviously farther ahead. And also, you can avoid making the mistakes of your, of your predecessors.

n't do this, you're going to [: 00:18:00

Just like I sure I did multiple times in my career, when I was younger. But through mentorship, you can avoid those pains. And also, they slow you down. And if you can accelerate stuff and again, learn those tricks to trade, you know, learn how to bypass certain things, but also, you know, it's the lessons learned from the actions. And why do we do it this way? Why is it done this way?

And also, what I do see happen more often than not in today's world is technology, is removing the personal connections. So people have laid the turn to their email, to their texting, and communicate in that manner, or even on a Zoom call.

hat. However, the best thing [: 00:19:00

I mean, because There's so many ways of writing, can be misinterpreted, you know, and so on. You know, You can't convey the message the same way you can't show the body language, the tonality, it's all missing. you know. You could be an incredible writer, but still, it's not the same as sitting down and meeting with someone. So, you know, Those are the things I'd say.

MPS: You're right. so. It's interesting on that topic. I had a deal in a previous business that we were trying to get pushed over the edge, and the people I was working with on this deal were out in Manchester, England. And I remember, I was on vacation. And I got an email from them saying, Hey, you know, we really want to get things finalized, get next steps going.

nd I had a choice to make. I [: 00:20:00

You get to meet them face-to-face. There's just something to it. And I've heard this before in several podcasts, but when you have the opportunity, getting on the plane, figuratively, whatever the form of transportation may be, and going to actually shake someone's hand in person, there's more weight to that, and there's more power to that. And I couldn't agree with that more. so I'm, totally on board with, that advice.

I am curious from a mentorship perspective, because mentorship really in anything, but especially in the practice of law could be mentorship in the form of practice of law, or mentorship in the form of life and business.

in that direction, do you have a preference? Are you looking, Are you hoping that someone finds a mentor for both, one in the same, or one of those areas?

ff Baldassari: Find multiple [: 00:21:00

I think also, just one last thing about being in person. If you think about being an attorney, you're an extension of your client. And I think it's very important for clients or potential clients to see you in person, to see how tall you are, what are your mannerisms like? Because do I want that guy or gal representing me? And, I'd be proud to be with that person, you know, that, and the professionalism, that's very, very important.

n help that out. It can help [: 00:22:00

They could be redundant, or separate, or all the above. I think, one mentor alone is not enough. Life is too complex. So you need more than one.

MPS: Yes. I agree with you. Having a mentor, a coach in different facets and areas of life is good. And it diversifies the different points of feedback you get to, and it's more specialized.

[: 00:23:00

Could be personal, could be business, could be both?

Jeff Baldassari: I think, it's the continual learning. Just because you have a title, I've been fortunate enough in my career to be a CEO for more than two decades, but I never stopped learning. You know, I can learn from anyone. I can teach a lot and I can learn a lot.

And what gets me excited is, there's a book I just started reading about relationships called How to Be the Adult in The Relationship. Well, That could apply in your personal life and your professional life. I just ordered, I haven't started reading yet, The New CEO.

have to maintain some level [: 00:24:00

There are certain things, you know, when it comes to dealing with people that are timeless. However, to learn better techniques, and to make yourself more efficient in achieving the outcome you want to achieve, or, you know, whether that be connecting with the person, making a difference, whatever it may be, it's always good to hear, again, this is kind of an indirect way of mentorship, because by reading or watching YouTube videos, whatever it may be,

MPS: Yeah,

Jeff Baldassari: you're going to listen to other people's experiences and how they tackle the problem similar to yours. Or how they capture an opportunity that you may or may not have considered, it's in front of you.

So, you need to keep that continuous business curiosity and to get better. You just want to keep getting better than you were yesterday. I think, that to me is what drives me every day.

ood point in the, continuous [: 00:25:00

We just recently partnered with a client on a workflow system for law. And he was talking about this system. And he's like, Yeah, when someone gets to the point and says, you know, I've got it, you know, I've got this dial and I've got it. He's like, They don't , they don't, It's something That's a sign that there's a lot more to come. And so, it's one of those things, you just always have to be open and receptive to new ideas, to feedback, and to continuous learning.

so Jeff, you've written this book. You've provided a, bunch of tremendous value to the audience today. Where can people grab a copy of this book?

you can join the newsletter, [: 00:26:00

And, you know, just, Again, it came from aggregating and observing, what the quarter partners, what values, skills, and expertise they possess. You know, They got them to where they were in their careers, and that's what the book's all about. And it was a fun journey.

And what's neat about the book is, it's interactive. So it's more of a workbook than just a passive reading this long narrative. You know, so there's, I think, it's about just under 200 pages long. And what I'll do, I'll have a point you know, to make, and I'll have a handful of three different quotes that'll support that point. And I'll have a short paragraph about the point I'm trying to make.

ver, you want to embed these [: 00:27:00

Because at the end, that's how you become a better professional. And so that's why, when I did the rewrite, over the last year, and then when it came out before publishing, was to make it so the takeaway would be more impactful, than just passively reading and only retaining a small amount. When you have to sit there and write down, on every page, something, that'll really, you know, again, embed that into your daily behavior or into your DNA.

MPS: That's excellent. I love that you developed a book in that way. I like workbook, style books. I, think, you're able to take, retain, and implement more with workbook style books. So I think, that's great. Well, Law firm owners listening, they're, you heard it. right. Make sure, you go grab a copy of the book.

llow button, turn those bell [: 00:28:00

And we love producing this. This is your way of saying thank you. That's all we ask for in return. And then in addition, show Jeff some love down in the comments. I just know if you have any questions and just show them some love.

But Jeff, I just want to thank you, personally, for investing your time and providing some value to the audience today.

Jeff Baldassari: Hey, thanks, Michael. I enjoyed the conversation and the questions. and I hope, it helps a couple other people out in your listeners. It helps make their career a little bit better, and their practice a little bit more successful.

MPS: No doubt, it will. All right, Jeff, that's the pod.