Law Firm Growth & Client Retention Strategies Every Lawyer Needs | YPM Podcast

Jim Sorenson: [: 00:00:00

Tyler Van Leuven: we had no idea what our numbers were. I mean, we knew what our profit was and, you know, our P and L and, you know, budget and all that. But if you'd ask me how many cases we have coming in or leads or none, all we know is we had to make a certain number every month in order to break even or make money 


MPS: [: 00:01:00

Richard James: And I'm Richard James, a MPS. I always say this. We got a great show planned for you, but I mean that specifically today because we have two of our favorite members in the room, Tyler Van Leuven, as well as Jim Sorenson. And one of the things that makes them my favorite is because when they came into our world they come from a practice area that I really didn't expect. Like they walked up to me and told me that they focus on working with credit unions. And it was the first time I'd ever walked into that particular practice area. 


ring all the stories of your [: 00:02:00

So Tyler, Jim, welcome to the show today. 


Tyler Van Leuven: Thanks for having us. 


Jim Sorenson: Yeah, thank you. We're excited to be here. 


Richard James: Cool. 


MPS: excited to have you. And to kind of break the ice a little bit for everyone listening, we like to start with a little get to know you. So, what's something that maybe not everyone knows about you? 


And either one of you could take this to start. 


Jim Sorenson: I'll go first. So one of the things that not a lot of people know about me is in college, I was a collegiate debater. I did collegiate debate and won a national title in collegiate debate. So at that time, I wasn't sure I wanted to be a lawyer. 


Was interesting. A lot of the people on the debate team all intended to be a lawyer. 


Several of those did not go on to be a lawyer. I, of course, went on to be a lawyer. But, yeah, that's, something that a lot of people don't know about me. 


Richard James: MPS. This is why we don't debate with our clients. 


bly could have been lawyers, [: 00:03:00

Richard James: That's correct. 


Jim Sorenson: Yes. 


Tyler Van Leuven: As to myself I'm the father of three awesome daughters and I never would have thought I'd be that. And that did not, one people, that did not make me lose my hair. I was already losing my hair at like 20. I took after my grandfather, so 


y used BMW SUV with a custom [: 00:04:00

Tyler Van Leuven: 100 percent the truth. I mean, when I turned 16, I had a. My parents gave me a Chrysler LeBaron station wagon with the wood paneling that did not run. My daughter got a slightly used Volkswagen T1. That's great with a, you know, leather sunroof, the whole nine yards. 


MPS: whole nine yards. Jim knows. He can, 


Tyler Van Leuven: Jim knows. He can, he can attest to that. Yeah, it 


Jim Sorenson: That is true. That is true. 


Richard James: that's great. Well, you know what? We're just human. That's all there is to it. We're just human. 


MPS: just human. 


xcited because Because these [: 00:05:00

Yeah. and it's nice to see the different perspective of the B2B side of things. So I think this will offer a, a unique view. And so I'm too looking forward to the journey. You guys can choose who wants to kick it off, but I'd love to hear the high points. 


ame a partner, owner that At [: 00:06:00

Tyler Van Leuven: Scary. 


wasn't sure how it was gonna [: 00:07:00

Richard James: It, you know, it's interesting, Jim, I don't know if you want, or sorry, Tyler, I don't know if you want to add anything to what Jim said before I comment 


telling somebody to make it [: 00:08:00

MPS: Jim. 


Tyler Van Leuven: It was a little scary. And we started, like Jim said, we, our entire team and it was Well, I guess it was six. 


I mean, it's Jim and myself and four attorneys and 21 staff people with zero revenue. So, I was a little, a little anxious. 


Richard James: And and hoping like, heck that. So, okay. Some details. So. 


MPS: So, 


Richard James: Roughly, 


MPS: you can, you 


Richard James: you could, you know, were you both making like north of 200 each or less than 200 each from that other firm. 


Jim Sorenson: I was making north of it. Tyler was making less than that, I believe. 


t your family could live off [: 00:09:00

Tyler Van Leuven: I don't regret it. I mean, I just, it was a, it was a blessing in disguise. It was, 


Jim Sorenson: I, agree. I don't regret it. there have certainly been some tough times, you know, like, you know, Tyler said, bringing in 21 staff people the first couple months of, are we going to make payroll? How is this going to work? You know, we, we had some money in the bank for, Tyler had some money in the bank and I had some money in the bank, but you know, we didn't want to raid our, children's college funds and dip into our retirement. We, you know, but we didn't know how this was going to happen and so, but no, I, I've not regretted it at all. 


Richard James: Yeah, that could have easily been a 90 to 150,000 commitment month one, depending somewhere in that range, right? 


MPS: right? Yep. 


often where they start with [: 00:11:00

MPS: Oh, it's definitely fair. I'm talking about being thrown in the deep end on that one, you know, carrying over 21 employees and four attorneys. That's that's a heck of a leap. But I'm curious to hear from you guys as you kicked into it, what, and I'm sure there were several but what would you say was the biggest challenge that you guys encountered and what'd you do to solve it? 


I did not want to feel like [: 00:12:00

Tyler Van Leuven: We had no idea what our numbers were. Absolutely none. I mean, we met with our accountant, but we had a, we knew what our profit was and, you know, our P and L and, you know, budget and all that. But, if you'd ask me how many cases we have coming in or leads or none, all we know is we had to make a certain number every month in order to break even or make money. And after those 1st, couple of months of excitement, I mean, I literally, I was like, Jim, we're gonna have to back down the hatches and I'm normally more so that way. Anyways, I'll even to this day, I'm like, well. We gotta, we gotta, we gotta lock this sucker down 


uven: Jim's usually the more [: 00:14:00

Richard James: yeah, that's right. Megan was there. 


Tyler Van Leuven: Yeah, 


Richard James: was the only time we ever went to that show. 


MPS: Actually, 


Richard James: that's interesting. 


Tyler Van Leuven: you went. 


what I was going to have to [: 00:15:00

MPS: Well, so what was the first, you identified the issue, what was the first tactical tool or trade you implemented to start solving it? 


ed with me because I'm like, [: 00:17:00

Tyler Van Leuven: And during the pandemic you know, we joined, I guess, in what, March of 19. 


Richard James: Right. 


Tyler Van Leuven: And so the pandemic hit, you know, not too long thereafter, and it really kind of slowed our business down. So we're able to do some of these things that needed to be done, that we had learned that were important, as Jim said to tighten the ship, if you will.

law firm that wakes up every [: 00:19:00

MPS: Oh, I would absolutely agree. I think the mindset is half the battle. If you could get the mindset down that goes for almost every aspect of business, right? In every department, if you could just get your mindset right in marketing and [00:21:00] sales and operations you're already half the way there. Now it just comes to business. tactical things, which just required doing and implementing. 


the work. They can't hire it [: 00:22:00

MPS: That's an interesting question. So, it always did come so innately to me, and it was always very interesting to see because everyone in that room was highly intelligent, right? So everyone in there was highly intelligent. So the experience of them not quite getting just that little shift of like, all right, if we just look at this just a little bit differently, it's very interesting to see, but the flip side is also true. Which is the moment they did have that light bulb moment in the switch did flip. Well then it was like just throwing gasoline on the fire because now they're highly intelligent and made switch flip. So now they just go in like gangbusters and they got it and they're like in. And so that was also cool. It was always fascinating to see the other side and it usually took, necessity create that switch, right? [00:23:00] Something had to happen for them to flip the switch, but when they did, it was fun to watch. I'm curious, Jim and Tyler what's, guys have had this very exciting journey and here you are today, but what's got you both fired up and excited today? Could be business, could be personal, could be both. 


me to do some things that my [: 00:24:00

Tyler Van Leuven: Yeah, for myself, I'm the total opposite of Jim. I'm next year. I'll have. All three of mine in high school, so I'll have a senior, a sophomore, and a freshman. So, I'm excited about getting them out of the house. I mean, I love them to death. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love them to death, and they know that, but it 


. And [: 00:25:00

Tyler Van Leuven: We're basically like brothers. So, I mean, we've been, Jim, see me go through many seasons of life already. He's been through some awful girlfriends, my wife, children. I remember his children were little and coaching soccer and, you know, we, he's basically like a brother because I don't have a brother and I've got 2 younger sisters. So, it's basically like a brother. So, 


MPS: So, [: 00:27:00

Tyler Van Leuven: sometimes we have disagreements, 


Richard James: Yeah. Brothers fight, 


Tyler Van Leuven: I think our personalities compliment each other. I think they always have, I mean, areas that I'm stronger in and he may be not as strong and vice versa. So that's my take on it. I don't know how Jim feels about it, but I would assume it's kind of similar. 


Richard James: Well, Jim, here's your chance. 


rence does frustrate people. [: 00:28:00

Richard James: parting piece of advice from anybody that, and if you wanted to give your contact information, if anybody had any questions for you, but so I'd say one parting piece of advice for that attorney who's listening out there that might be frustrated, wondering what, they got themselves into. And if if they want to be able to contact you, how would they do that? 


them more about our journey [: 00:29:00

MPS: Awesome. Thanks, Tyler. 


Tyler Van Leuven: I think along the same lines with what Jim was saying, you gotta also be willing to make the hard decisions. And it will put you in a very uncomfortable place, but, you know, nobody likes them, but you just gotta do it. I mean, that's, the reality of business. And it's not because you're a hateful or spiteful person. It's just that you have to make this, make decisions for the business that you would, wouldn't want to do, but are necessary in order to move the business forward for the good of everybody, all of our employees, so. and my, uh, email is Tyler at svllaw.com. 


isions because our job is to [: 00:30:00

MPS: Well, Tyler, Jim, I just want to thank both of you for taking the time to be on today. This, this was good, and And I really enjoyed the conversation, especially around mindset because I think it's so, so important and under discussed. And so I appreciate you guys doing that and to the law firm owners listening. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen in. There was plenty of information to pull from today. So show Jim and Tyler some love down in the comments and hit that subscribe or follow button depending on where you're listening or watching. But Jim, Tyler, thank you very much for being on today. 


Tyler Van Leuven: Thank you 


Jim Sorenson: Thank you for having us. 


Richard James: Yeah. Jim and Tyler value bombs all the way around. If I can get the attorneys that are listening to this, or if they could be convinced by listening to you to change their mindset from being a an attorney to being a business owner, if they own their own law firm, that is a massive win. Thank you so much for sharing that today. I appreciate both of you. Thanks for all you do for us. And if there's anything we can ever do for you, we're here for you.

Jim Sorenson: Appreciate it. 


Tyler Van Leuven: Thank you. 


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